Hydraulic Hose Fitting.com – TractorByNet.com – Compact Tractor Discussion Forums

Hydraulic Hose Fitting.com – TractorByNet.com – Compact Tractor Discussion Forums
Has anyone purchased from this place? Hydraulichosefittings.com
They advertise on the site that most orders ship in 24 to 48 hours. I placed my order on 5/9/06. They have a e-mail address to check on orders. I have sent 3 with no replies. I even left a voice mail at the phone number (Not toll free) listed on the site with no reply. Anyone ordered from them and had similar or different results?

You have a problem.

If you search here for HydraulicHoseFittings.com you will find many dissatisfied customers. At one time I used them exclusively but over the past 2 years their service became non-existant with orders never getting processed. BTW, this is a guy who is working out of his house and he stocks nothing. All of the stuff you order is shipped from a wholesaler or some other business in another state.

If you paid by credit card I would suggest you cancel your order and do business with Discount Hydraulic Hose. They are a real store front and you get to talk to a real person. Several of us here have switched over to them. Good service at a reasonable price.

FRONT END LOADER CONTROL VALVE ? – TractorByNet.com – Compact Tractor Discussion Forums

FRONT END LOADER CONTROL VALVE ? – TractorByNet.com – Compact Tractor Discussion Forums
You were right rback33. It was inside one of the end caps on the spools on the opposite side from where the handle kit attaches. all it needed was to be cleaned and lubed. now it works fine, doesn’t stick and it goes into float just like its suppose to.
Just one thing when disassembling the parts under the end cap
theres a part that looks like a 5/8” socket, be careful when removing this part because this part holds five little ball bearings and a spring (under pressure)
yep, I found out the hard way. the spring and ball bearings fell to the ground. but with a little help from a magnet I found all the parts.
Thank you all for your help. Les

Power Steering

Power Steering

Re: Power Steering
« Reply #3 on: Today at 10:07:43 AM »
Reply with quote
Quote from: busmup808 on Today at 04:23:48 AM
I wanted to know if anybody ever put the Calmini powere steering kit on their Sammy? My question was: do you use the stock sidekick pitman arm or the pitman arm from the stock 1.3 steering box! Calmini does not say in the directions and when i called their shop, the dang sale man didn’t even know what i was talking about. He had to put me on hold to look for the directions. Thank you to who ever replys and much mahalo.

Use the stock Kick arm…….the Samurai arm won’t fit the Kick box. Calmini also has a dropped arm for the Kick box if you have lots of lift that x-over steering won’t fix. My power steering kit was made by a friend but it’s very similar to the Calmini kit and I like mine just fine. Just remember to bleed the system before you crank the engine………all you need to do is jack up the front of the Zuk and turn the wheel from side to side and keep adding fluid. This will clear any air pockets in the system. Those pumps will not last long with a lot of air in the system.

1.6 exhaust valves in a 1.3 head?

1.6 exhaust valves in a 1.3 head?

1.6 exhaust valves in a 1.3 head?
« on: Yesterday at 08:56:09 AM »
I just sent my 1.3 head to the machine shop tp have 1.6 exhaust valve put in. I just read a post with a reference to a piston clearence issue. I did a search and can find no other info on this. Has anybody ever done this? Is there really an issue? I tried to call asian but no one answered the phone. Huh
Posts: 1,220
Loc: Ohio, Illinois USA
Joined Dec 2002
Re: 1.6 exhaust valves in a 1.3 head?
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 09:30:19 AM »
There is no piston clearance issue with the larger valves . The only possible problem would be if the head was milled excessively . Keep the milling under .020″ , just do enough to clean it up . Ask if the shop can do bronze liners in the guides , they last a lot longer .

things you should know about centrifugal pumps

SUBJECT: Some more things you should know about centrifugal pumps 11-4

The limitations of a magnetic drive pump

  • They are less efficient than conventional centrifugal pumps.
  • They operate in a narrow window. You cannot pump too far off the best efficiency point (B.E.P.)
  • They use sleeve bearings instead of precision bearings with correspondingly more radial movement.
  • The product you are pumping must be a lubricant for the bearings.
  • The product you are pumping must be clean because of the very narrow clearances in the bearings and between the housing and the magnets. This means you are almost always limited to the pumping of a finished product.
  • Be careful of products that are sensitive to an increase in temperature. The product will get warmer in the close clearances you find in magnetic drive pumps.
  • Do not run the pump dry, you will trash it

When do you switch from anti-friction ball and roller bearings to hydrodynamic (sleeve) bearings in a centrifugal pump?

  • Any time the DN number exceeds 300,000 (Bearing bore times rpm)
  • If the standard bearings fail to meet an L10 life of 25.000 hours in continuous operation or 16,000 hours at maximum axial and radial load and rated speed.
  • If the product of the pump horsepower and speed in rpm, is 2.7 million or greater.

Increasing the impeller speed increases the efficiency of centrifugal pumps.

  • About 15% for an increase from 1500 to 3600 rpm.
  • Less dramatic at lower speeds.
  • Maximum efficiency is obtained in the specific speed range of 2000 to <3000

If the wear ring clearance is too large:

  • The pump will take on excessive vibration caused by internal recirculation. This can cause seal and bearing component damage.
  • The pump will not meet its designed capacity because of internal recirculation.
  • Wear rings should be replaced when their clearance doubles. This additional clearance will increase the pump power requirements with the amount varying according to the specific speed( NS ) of the impeller
    • NS 200 14% increase
    • NS 500 7% increase
    • NS 2500 Insignificant increase

Pumps are normally throttled with a discharge valve, but in rare cases it can be done with a suction valve.

  • You must have sufficient NPSH to prevent cavitation.
  • Suction throttling prevents the over heating caused by discharge regulation. This can be important with fluids like jet fuel where the additional heat could vaporize the fluid.

Because an overhung impeller does not require the extension of a shaft into the impeller suction eye, single stage impellers are preferred for pumps handling suspended matter such as sewage.

Electric motors are sized considering the specific gravity of the liquid being pumped. If a low specific gravity pump is tested with water, or any higher specific gravity fluid, the increase in motor amperage could burn out the motor.

Do not hydrostatically test a high temperature pump with water. Water trapped in small recesses and gaskets will flash to steam in high temperature applications, expand and then break something.

There are several ways to prime a centrifugal pump with a suction lift:

  • Fill it full of liquid prior to starting.
  • Install a foot valve in the suction piping to prevent the fluid from draining back to the sump. Be careful of these valves, many of them leak and defeat the purpose of installing them in the first place.
  • Install a vacuum pump in the discharge line to pump out any air.
  • Install a priming tank in either the suction line, the discharge line or both.
  • Purchase a self priming pump.

Pumps with variable speed drives have several potential problems:

  • The fluid viscosity can change with speed if it is a non Newtonian fluid.
  • The shaft can hit a critical speed.
  • You can get too much capacity that can burn out the motor.
  • Operating off the BEP can cause shaft deflection.
  • Explosion proof motors must be approved to operate over the entire operating range. At the lower rpms the cooling fan is not rotating fast enough.
  • Variable speed demands may affect the electrical power distribution system by reducing electrical demand.
  • The mechanical seal has to be designed to operate over the entire speed range. At higher speeds the design has to be of the stationary type with the spring face load reduced.
  • At higher shaft speeds the NPSH requirement is higher to prevent cavitation problems.

You cannot vent a running pump. Centrifugal force throws the liquid to the outside of the volute leaving the air at the eye of the impeller.

Operating off the BEP can break the pump shaft because the force is always in the same direction while the shaft is turning. This has the affect of flexing the shaft twice per revolution. In many cases you can easily exceed the endurance limit of the shaft material.

  • The stresses imposed in reverse bending are cumulative.
  • Most fatigue failure occurs in one million cycles or less. At 1750 rpm you get 2,520,000 cycles per day.
  • If a 300 series, stainless steel shaft is running in a fluid containing chlorides, the shaft is subject to chloride stress corrosion problems that can be another cause of shaft cracking and breakage.

Slurry pumps have some features that make them different than chemical pumps.

  • The pumps are more massive
  • Looser tolerances.
  • The clearances are more open.
  • Parts have blunt rather than tapered edges.
  • The metal parts are harder.
  • They utilize “through bolt construction” because it is difficult to drill and tap the harder metal.
  • Some designs are rubber lined to absorb the impact of abrasive fluids.
  • They are less efficient than chemical pumps.
  • Many slurries are dilatants. Their viscosity increases with agitation. You may have to convert to a positive displacement design.
    • Kaoline or china clay is a good example. Some sugar syrups fall into this category also.

If you need a pump with high head, low capacity features:

  • High speed centrifugal pumps are the most popular.
  • Multistage vertical and horizontal pumps are another option.
  • Regenerative turbine pumps work well, but the necessary close clearances dictate only clean fluids.
  • Gear or rotary positive displacement pumps work well, but they have slippage problems in low viscosity service and their very low capacities may not be sufficient for the application.
  • Metering pumps are good for very low flow, but the inherent pulsations can damage some instrumentation.
  • You can connect single stage centrifugal pumps in series if a single pump cannot meet the head requirements.
  • Partial emission pumps can operate at a specific speed as little as two (2). They utilize a “Baske” straight vane impeller with a diffuser that allows flow from a small section of the impeller channels to pass to the pump discharge at any time (hence partial emission). This pump was developed during world war II to handle the high head low flow rate requirements of the German ram jet fuel pump.
  • Throttling a centrifugal pump to get a high head will cause some problems:
    • The resultant shaft deflection can damage the seal or break the shaft.
    • Internal recirculation can overheat the volute and cause cavitation problems.
    • A high differential pressure across the pump can damage close internal clearances.
    • The power loss can be expensive.
    • The increase in stuffing box temperature can cause a premature seal failure.

The optimum control valve location is within five feet (1,5 meters) of the pump discharge to prevent too much surging of fluid in the system when the discharge is throttled.

  • The optimum pipe size will consider the installed cost of the pipe (the cost increases with size) and the pump power requirements (the power required increases with pipe friction)
  • Try to limit the friction loss at design flow to 2-5 feet for each 100 feet (1-2 meters for each 30 meters) of pipe).
  • To prevent the settling of solids you need a minimum velocity of about 4 to 7 feet per second (1.5 to 2.5 meters per second)
  • Velocities of no more than 10 feet (3 meters) per second are recommended in the suction side piping to prevent abrasive wear.

Here is the proper way to vent a centrifugal pump after it has been installed, or the system has been opened. I am assuming the pump is empty of liquid and both the suction and discharge valves are shut.

  • Open the suction valve. The pump fills part way.
  • Close the suction valve.
  • Open the discharge valve part way. Once the pressure equalizes the air will rise in the discharge piping.
  • Open the suction valve.
  • Start the pump.

If you are using a high speed pump (greater than electric motor speeds) there are some additional things to consider:

  • You must go to a stationary seal design if the seal face surface speed exceeds 5000 fpm. (25 meters/sec). These designs use a hydraulic balance ratio of about 60/40 instead of the conventional 70/30, and the spring load on the seal faces drops from 10-30 psi.( 0,7 to 2 kg/cm2) to 8-15 psi. (0,5 to 1 kg/cm2 ).
  • You will probably have to install an inducer if the suction specific speed of the pump is greater than 12,000. Be sure to remember that although a high speed inducer can generate an additional 25-100 feet (10-30 meters) of head, you cannot use this additional head when sizing the pump because of inlet losses at the impeller.
  • At higher shaft speeds the bearing oil level is critical to prevent overheating.
  • Be aware that ball bearings have speed limits:
  • The bearing bore, in millimeters, times the rpm must not exceed 300,000.
  • The pump horse power times the rpm must not exceed 2.7 million.
  • Cavitation is always a problem when you have the combination of a high speed pump and low specific gravity fluid.
  • If you double the speed of a pump, abrasives will cause eight times the wear you would experience in the slower speed pump design.

 Link to the Mc Nally home page

any way to fix a cluster

any way to fix a cluster
Re: any way to fix a cluster
« Reply #4 on: Today at 02:19:29 AM »
If you look at the schematic of the two gauges, you will see that they look identical, except one (fergit which) has an additional coil thingee, looks like a relay. Commonly, a small wire going from a terminal to this coil gets burned in two. I have fixed a number of them by carefully soldering the wire back together. The symptoms are normally different than what you describe, yet this is an area they have in common. I would look here.

For The Student:

It appears that this extra coil speeds warm-up of the two gauges. The gauges are not magnetic. They have a bi-metal strip that bends when heated, which is mechanically attached to the needles. Each gauge’s bi-metal strip is wrapped with a ni-chrome wire that heats each metal strip in proportion to the current flowing to the gauge. They don’t receive full current except at startup, this warms them quickly to ‘operating temp’.

This is when (at startup) the ‘extra’ coil’s cool contact allows current to by-pass its resistive ni-chrome wire coil, and flow directly, unabated, to each gauge. When the extra coil’s bi-metal strip heats up, the contact opens, the by-pass is opened (no more current flow), the current to the gauges now has to pass through the resistive wire coil, and is lowered by the extra resistance in the electrical path.

When the lil wire burns through, the extra coils’s bi-metal strip doesn’t heat, the contacts never open, full current is always applied to the gauges and they read VERY high.

Tips for TIG welding aluminum

Tips for TIG welding aluminum – By a beginner, for beginners

This page is far from a comprehensive tutorial; it’s just some tips and some links to more authoritative information. It’s intended for people who want to learn to weld aluminum, but have little no experience in welding aluminum, or even in welding in general. This was a description of me a couple of months ago. In my attempts to learn to weld aluminum, I gathered all the information I could find from a lot of different sources – the very simplistic and under-informative manual that came with the welder, lots of reading on the web, basic welding books with very short sections on aluminum, and very advanced books that were written for engineers which had more equations and formulas than practical welding advice. Then using what I had learned, coupled with a lot of trial and error, I eventually figured out how to get two pieces of aluminum to stick together without cracking, warping, shriveling, or breaking. Along the way I made several key discoveries that would have saved me a lot of trial and error time if someone had just told me about them. I thought I’d share the little I do know and maybe it’ll help someone out there learn to weld aluminum faster than they would have otherwise.

What do you equipment do you need?

1. A TIG (GTAW) welder Most sources say a TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welder, also called a GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welder), is the best method of welding aluminum. I’ve heard aluminum can also be welded with a MIG welder or a stick welder or even a with a gas torch. Since I’ve only used the TIG for aluminum, that’s what I’ll be writing about. TIG welders are fairly expensive and it’s hard to justify buying even the lowest quality units unless you are making money with your welding. The more expensive units ($6000) have a bunch of features that make doing high quality welding on aluminum possible. We have a bottom-of-the-line ($2500) Hobart welder that is described as good for the hobbyist or farmer. As tempting as it was to blame the machine while I was making charred bits of twisted metal instead of neatly welded joints, I came to realize that adequate welds can be made, even with a cheapo machine. What do you get when you spend the extra money on a welder? More amperage (meaning the ability to weld thicker metal), water cooling (I don’t know what advantage this provides, but the gas hood glows orange on our air cooled unit when it’s at maximum output, and it’s only 165A), square wave AC (this allow grinding a ceriated tungsten to a point for a more stable arc), frequency adjustment, and adjustment of the ratio of positive to negative current for better cleaning or penetration. Since my machine has none of these features, I can’t offer any advice on how to make use of them.

2. Good welding gloves. I have crappy welding gloves and the painful blisters to prove it.

3. A good welding helmet. I hear the gold tinted auto darkening helmets are the best. I have a $20 helmet with a tiny window that falls off my head when I flip it down.

4. Argon gas. Mixes will not work for aluminum with the exception of an Argon / Helium mix. Don’t take the tank from you MIG welder to use on your TIG welder – it won’t work at all. You will just make a bunch of burnt metal and soot.

5. Aluminum welding rod. I got the 4043, which seems to be the most recommended. There is a good chart at http://www.tinmantech.com on which rod to use for which alloys as well as a ton of excellent metalworking and aluminum welding information. At this point I don’t have any idea how to tell one alloy from another, and I’m not doing any mission critical welding, so don’t worry about it. The 4043 has been working well for me.

6. A dedicated stainless steel brush that you only use for aluminum. Write “aluminum” on it so it doesn’t get used for anything else.

7. A metal bench would be nice. I don’t have one. Stopping your weld to put out a fire is a pain in the ass. This happens to me all the time.

8. A squirt bottle with water. This is not for cooling the work, it’s for putting out small fires that aren’t big enough to use a fire extinguisher on. Cooling aluminum rapidly may cause it to crack in or near the weld.

9. A fire extinguisher might not be a bad idea if you don’t want to get fired for burning down the shop.

10. This next one is VERY important: a heavy long sleeve cotton work shirt. TIG welding produces more UV radiation than any other welding process. The first time I used the TIG I was wearing a tee shirt. I used the welder for 10 min if even that. The front of my biceps and a spot at the bottom of my neck were painfully burned with blisters and peeling skin. I just takes a few minutes to do some serious burning.

11. Clamps or Vise Grips or whatever your going to use to hold your work in place and some blocks or bars of aluminum or copper to use as heat sinks.

That’s enough of the shopping list. On with the useful tips

Tip #1 — Clean the aluminum. This is the most important tip I have. I read this in several places before I began to practice welding, but it didn’t seem so sink in and I wasted a lot of metal by trying to weld two pieces of dirty aluminum together. ALUMINUM THAT LOOKS BRAND NEW AND CLEAN IS ACTUALLY DIRTY. IT’S NOT LIKE STEEL.

Here are some of the signs that your aluminum is dirty.

-A wandering arc -You can’t get a puddle started without burning through or distorting the metal

-Your filler won’t blend into the puddle, instead it rolls into a difficult to re-melt ball.

-The aluminum seems to have surface tension, like beads of water on a waxed surface.

-When trying to join 2 pieces the edges curl away from each other and form an even bigger gap.

Here’s what’s happening: Aluminum quickly forms an more or less invisible coating of aluminum oxide. Aluminum oxide melts at three times the temperature of aluminum. When you try to weld uncleaned aluminum, the aluminum under the aluminum oxide coating will melt but the aluminum oxide coating will stay solid and act as a membrane, much like a water balloon. When you finally succeed in penetrating the coating, the very runny aluminum inside will flow out all at once, much like a bursting water balloon.

Here’s how I prep the aluminum for welding.

-First I spray the aluminum with some brake cleaner or electrical cleaner.

-Then I rinse the aluminum in water, just in case there’s any nasty residue.

-Then I use a stainless steel brush (make sure the brush is stainless, I’ve read this is important) to scrub the aluminum shiny clean around the area to be welded.

Some articles I’ve read suggest that the aluminum should be scrubbed in one direction only to avoid working contaminants into the aluminum. I don’t always follow this rule and I haven’t noticed any problems stemming from it, but I’m not working on anything too critical and I’m far from an expert. I’ve also read that 3M Scotchbrite pads are a good way to prep aluminum. If you do not weld on the aluminum immediately after cleaning, you should give it a touch up cleaning before you start to weld. I’ve read eight hours exposure after cleaning is the maximum acceptable without re-cleaning.

Tip #2 — Clamp your work to a heatsink made of copper or aluminum whenever possible. Aluminum transmits heat very well. Once the area you trying to weld gets hot enough to melt, the rest of the work is likely to be so hot that it’s shrinking and warping. Using a heat sink under the area being welded will absorb some of the heat and help keep the work from warping.

Tip #3 — Preheat before welding. This makes it a LOT easier to weld aluminum. This is not a subject that is without controversy. The issue is that some aluminum is heat treated, and by heating and cooling heat treated aluminum it will get softer. I’ve read opinions ranging from “heat treated aluminum should never be preheated” and “preheating is a crutch for inexperienced welders”, to the opposite extreme, “aluminum should always be preheated to prevent cracking”. Recommended preheating temperatures range from 275 deg. F, to 500 deg. F. I suspect that many of these opinions are correct in their own contexts. The proper procedure likely varies for a welding a space shuttle door in a vacuum chamber and welding a cracked cylinder head. One thing I know for sure is welding thicker pieces of aluminum with our 165A welder without preheating is impossible. I once tried to weld two pieces of 8 mm thick aluminum together without preheating The result were a very shallow and weak weld, a circuit breaker that tripped twice and the welder overheated and shut down after every two inches welded. I don’t have an oven handy, so I use a propane torch aimed at the heat sink I clamp the work to and an infrared thermometer to tell when it’s hot enough. I usually can’t get the work any hotter than 350 deg., so that’s the temperature I use. I’ve considered getting a cheap used electric oven or an electric hot plate but haven’t yet. I don’t use the torch directly on the work. I don’t know if it would cause a problem or not, I feel more comfortable heating the heat sink instead.

Tip #4 — If the tungsten gets contaminated, stop welding and fix it. When the tungsten gets touches the weld pool or the filler, the arc becomes unstable and the weld quality goes way down. This happens to me a lot, unfortunately. The best method for fixing this is to remove the tungsten, lay it on a flat surface with the contaminated part hanging over the edge, hit the contaminated part of the tungsten (it will snap right off), reinstall the tungsten, change the polarity to DCEP (direct current electrode positive), strike an arc on some scrap metal to re-ball the tungsten, switch back to AC high, and you’re ready to weld again. By the way, KEEP YOUR GLOVES ON WHILE YOU DO THIS! Otherwise you gonna have a nasty burn. This only takes about 30 seconds once you’ve done it a few times.

Tip #5 — Fit the parts together as tightly as possible leaving no gaps. When using a MIG welder, I’ve found it fairly easy to fill gaps between the two pieces of steel being welded. However, I’ve found it very hard to do this while welding aluminum with the TIG. The heat from the TIG is very localized. When there is a gap, and heat is applied to the metal on one side, the metal pools on that side, but metal on the other side stays solid. You can alternate from side to side to get both sides to pool, but when I do this, I usually end up with a wider gap than when I started. The only way I’ve found to fill a gap is to “slop” a glob of filler across the gap, then work on the filler until it melts into both sides, then build off of the filler. This is hard to do. You can save a lot of time by using a file or die grinder and making the part fit together better before you start welding. The tighter the pieces are pressed together and the fewer the gaps, the easier the welding is.

Tip #6 — A few “rules of thumb” for base settings

Use one amp per .001″ of material thickness. Set the amperage a higher than the maximum you expect to use and use the foot pedal to back it down.

Use pure tungsten for aluminum if you have a cheaper (non-square wave) welder like me.

Use a 2% ceriated tungsten ground to a point if you have a more expensive (square wave) welder

Use a 1/16″ pure tungsten for 30 to 80 amps
Use a 3/32″ pure tungsten for 60 to 130 amps
Use a 1/8″ pure tungsten for 100 to 180 amps
Use 15 to 20 CFH Argon flow

Use a filler rod size equal to the tungsten size Adjust the tungsten to project from the hood a distance roughly equal to the diameter of the tungsten.

The arc length should be roughly equal to the diameter of the tungsten.

The first 3 tips were my major breakthroughs while learning to weld. They were the things I wished somebody had told me before I began my frustrating experimentation. There are, of course, many other things to know about welding aluminum, but there are many more complete articles available on the Internet. Follow the links below for some of my favorites.

Here are some great resources I’ve found:

http://www.tinmantech.com This guy does some amazing stuff and has written a bunch of excellent articles. You can read for hours and hours on this site; there is a lot of content. He has an oxy / acetylene bias, but his site is fascinating.

http://engine-builder.com This site has some great articles on aluminum welding, mainly about aluminum welding for aluminum cylinder heads, but the same advice is good for any welding any large thick piece of aluminum. Unfortunately, there is no way to link directly to the articles that I can find and the search back issues feature doesn’t seem to work correctly. If you search for “TIG weld aluminum” you will find some great articles among the 300 search results if you have the patience to dig.

These are some aluminum welding articles on the Miller website (Miller is a manufacturer of welders)







Electrolytic Rust Removal

The Electrolytic Rust Removal FAQ
By Ted Kinsey
Recently on the Internet, there was a series of e-mails on the Clocks mailing list about rust removal from steel parts. These techniques are not necessarily the ones put forward by the BHI, but they do give very sound ideas on the technique of rust removal

What is the method?
A technique for returning surface rust to iron. It uses the effect of an small low voltage electric current and a suitable electrolyte (solution).
What advantages does the method have?
The advantages this method has over the old standbys, like vinegar, Coke, muriatic acid, Naval Jelly, wire brushing, sand blasting etc. is that these methods all remove material to remove the rust, including un-rusted surfaces. With many, the metal is left with a “pickled” look or a characteristic colour and texture. The electrolytic method removes nothing: by returning surface rust to metallic iron, rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way.
What about screws, pivots, etc that are “rusted tight”?
The method will frequently solve these problems, without the need for force, which can break things.
Is it safe?
The solutions used are not hazardous; the voltages and currents are low, so there is no electrical hazard. No noxious fumes are produced. The method is self limiting: it is impossible to overclean an object.
Where did this method come from?
Electrolysis is a standard technique in the artefact restoration business. I wrote this up for the Chronicle of the Early American Industries Association a few years back. Most of the tool collectors around here use it:
What do I need?
A plastic tub; a stainless steel or iron electrode, water and washing soda (Some people have had success with baking soda) and a battery charger. About a tablespoon of soda to a gallon of water. If you have trouble locating the washing soda, household lye will work just fine. It’s a tad more nasty, always wear eye protection and be sure to add the lye to the water (NOT water to lye!!!) The solution is weak, and is not harmful, though you might want to wear gloves.
How long does the solution last?
Forever, though the loosened rust will make it pretty disgusting after a while. Evaporation and electrolysis will deplete the water from the solution. Add water ONLY to bring the level back.
What about the iron electrode?
The iron electrode works best if it surrounds the object to be cleaned, since the cleaning is “line of sight” to a certain extent. The iron electrode will be eaten away with time. Stainless steel has the advantage (some alloys, but not all) that it is not eaten away.
How do I connect the battery charger?
THE POLARITY IS CRUCIAL!! The iron or stainless electrode is connected to the positive (red) terminal. The object being cleaned, to the negative(black). Submerge the object, making sure you have good contact, which can be difficult with heavily rusted objects.
How do I know if it is working?
Turn on the power. If your charger has a meter, be sure come current is flowing. Again, good electrical contact may be hard to make-it is essential. Fine bubbles will rise from the object.
How long do I leave it?
The time depends on the size of the object and of the iron electrode, and on the amount of rust. You will have to test the object by trying to wipe off the rust. If it is not completely clean, try again. Typical cleaning time for moderately rusted objects is a few hours. With heavily rusted objects can be left over night.
How do I get the rust off after I remove the object?
Rub the object under running water. A paper towel will help. For heavily rusted objects, a plastic pot scrubber can be used, carefully. Depending on the amount of original rust, you may have to re-treat.
My object is too big to fit. Can I clean part of it?
Yes. You can clean one end and then the other. Lap marks should be minimal if the cleaning was thorough.
After I take it out, then what?
The clean object will acquire surface rust very quickly, so wipe it dry and dry further in a warm oven or with a hair dryer. You may want to apply a light oil or a coat of wax to prevent further rusting.
Will the method remove pitting?
No. It only operates on the rust in immediate contact with unrusted metal. What’s gone is gone.
What will it look like when I am done?
The surface of rusted metal is left black. Rusted pits are still pits. Shiny unrusted metal is untouched.
What about nickel plating, paint, japanning and the like?
Sound plating will not be affected. Plating under which rust has penetrated will usually be lifted. The solution may soften some paints. Test with a drop of solution in an inconspicuous place. Remove wood handles if possible before treating.
How can I handle objects that are awkward to clean?
There are lots of variants: suspending an electrode inside to clean a cavity in an object; using a sponge soaked in the electrolyte with a backing electrode to clean spots on large objects or things that shouldn’t be submerged (like with lots of wood)
How can I dispose of the solution?
The bath will last until it gets so disgusting that you decide it is time for a fresh one. There is nothing especially nasty about it-it’s mildly basic-so disposal is not a concern, except you may not want all the crud in your drains.
Can I use metal containers?
This is highly risky. Galvanised metal can introduce zinc into the solution. If you have used lye, it will attack aluminium. You may have problems with electrical shorts, etc. Stick to plastic.
How can I clean odd shaped objects?
Be ingenious. Plastic PVC pipe and eave troughs (gutters in the UK), wooden boxes with poly vapor barrier.
Ted Kinsey


Types of Tube and Pipe

1.5″ OD .120 wall is what you need to use for ease although we have used thicker on in house installs. As for DOM being stronger… DOM is not a tubing but a process that the tubing goes through to make the wall thickness even throughout the material.. 1018 HREW vs. 1020 Seamless DOM both carbon steels and both strong for a Zuk cage. Here is a material breakdown.

» Electric Resistance Welded (ERW)
» Cold Drawn Welded (CDW)
» Drawn Over Mandrel (DOM)
» Cold Drawn Seamless (CDS)
» Cold Rolled Electric Welded (CREW)
» Hot Rolled Electric Welded (HREW)
» What’s the difference between Tube and Pipe?
» Types of Tube and Pipe

Electric Resistance Welded (ERW)
Cold formed, electric resistance welded tubing can be produced in round, square or rectangle shapes. ERW tube is produced by processing a flat rolled steel into strips which are cold-formed, welded and seam annealed or normalized (depending on the manufacturer). You can usually identify ERW tube by the blue strip down one side of the tube (which is the welded area). The ERW process can guarantee the weld to be as strong or stronger than the rest of the tube body. The origin from a flat strip results in a more concentric product than Cold Drawn Seamless (CDS). ERW can also be known as CREW (Cold Rolled Electric Welded).
Typical Applications:
Structural columns, beams, supports, heavy equipment frames with 58,000 PSI tensile.

Cold Drawn Welded (CDW)
Produced from a steel strip by cold forming, electric resistance welding (ERW) and cold drawing to finished dimensions, CDW is the most versatile and widely sold mechanical tubing grade. A variety of thermal treatments can be applied to alter the mechanical properties and machinability. CDW is used for a tremendous variety of machine parts where close tolerances and higher mechanical properties are needed.
Typical Applications:
Automotive components, shock absorbers, hydraulic cylinders, sleeves, bushings, axles and shafting.

Drawn Over Mandrel (DOM)
DOM is formed from strip and Electric Resistance Welded (ERW) then cold drawn through a die and over a mandrel resulting in improved inner surfaces and dimensional quality. This process, called cold drawing, may be repeated more than once to reach the planned OD, ID, or wall dimension. Multiple draws can also be used to increase the strength or improve the surface finish of the tubes. During the drawing operation, the tubes may be process annealed to increase the ductility of the material. Lower cost alternative to CDS with equal or superior physical properties.
Typical Applications:
Machined parts, rollers, shafts, sleeves, steering columns, axle tubes, drive shafts, bushings and is most readily adaptable in cylinder applications with a 80,000 PSI tensile.

Cold Drawn Seamless (CDS)
General purpose seamless tubing, which is a solid bar of carbon steel drawn over a mandrel to form the tube section. CDS allows selection of chemistry and rough tube size. Cold drawing produces higher physical properties without heat treating. Offers widest range of sizes and chemistries in mechanical tubing. Better tolerances and reduced machining allowances over Hot Finished Seamless (HFS).
Typical Applications:
Machined parts, bushings, spacers, bearings, rollers, shafts, sleeves and cylinders with a 75,000 PSI tensile.

Cold Rolled Electric Welded (CREW)
Cold rolled steels are steels that are shaped by high pressure rollers at normal temperature in the steel mill. Cold rolling work hardens the material substantially. The steel is then welded by the electric weld process. A cold rolled steel can be either a mild steel or a high carbon steel. Can also be termed as ERW (Electric Resistance Welded). See » ERW

Hot Rolled Electric Welded (HREW)
Hot rolled steel is steel that is rolled to size in the mill while red hot. Hot rolling steel does not work harden it as much as cold rolling. For this reason, hot rolled steel is more easily machined than cold rolled.

What’s the difference between Tube and Pipe?
The general term for pipe was that it was primarily used for carrying gas or liquid. It was not intended for structural use because the dimensions used in describing pipe was not dimensionally accurate. Measurement was referred to its inside diameter and wall thickness. The inside diameter was a true dimension, but over the years had become “nominal” (in name only) so that when pipe size was referred to, it was an approximate inside diameter measurement with the thickness described by the term “schedule”.

• Pipe is generally more rigid than tube, and is usually produced in heavier wall thicknesses.

• Pipe is specified by a nominal dimension which bears little or no resemblance to the actual dimensions of the pipe. 1″ Schedule 40 pipe, for instance, has an actual OD of 1.32″, a wall of 0.133″, and an inner diameter of 1.049″. Tube dimensions are actual dimensions.

• Pipe fittings are sized to meet pipe sizes, but not tube sizes. A 1″ schedule 40 nipple will fit correctly on a 1″ schedule 40 pipe, but not on a 1″ OD tube.

Tube refers to round, square, rectangular or any shape of hollow material of uniform thickness which is defined by the outside diameter and wall thickness dimensions. It is the grade of the metals and how tube is produced and processed that is important.

• Structural Tube is generally produced using the ERW (Electric Resistance Welded) process. Identified under the Circular Hollow Section (CHS) or Hollow Structural Sections (HSS) class. Some steel mills specifically develop structural tube for roll over protective structures.

• Mechanical Tubing is usually produced as seamless, as-welded or DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) tube.

Types of Tube and Pipe

Structural Tube – high strength welded steel tubing
Mechanical Tube – seamless, as-welded and drawn over mandrel
Stainless Tubing and Pipe – several seamless and welding processes requiring resistance to corrosive materials
Standard Pipe – several seamless or electric weld process, carries liquid or gas